OldCleat Redrafts Bengals Draft - 2009

OldCleat redrafted the Bengals draft in 2008 and did OK. Of course, after the draft, I thought I did better than after the year. I will examine that before the start of the season. But it is time for OldCleat to redraft the Bengals draft, 2009. As last year, the rules are, I would draft a player that the Bengals had drafted, or someone drafted after the selection, until the Bengals selected again. So, my universe of players that I would have chosen were the players in-between the Bengals draft. I, of course, had the benefit of hindsight on this. Here is the OldCleat draft, 2009 edition.

Round one, sixth pick overall. The Bengals selected Andre Smith, OT, Alabama. I would have taken Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia, slightly over Rey Maualuga, MLB, Southern Cal, and Smith. When a team in the NFL is selecting in the high first round, I think that the most important thing is the floor, not the ceiling. I thought that Monroe was the best, most complete left tackle in the draft, even over the second overall pick, Jason Smith. I think Monroe will be a left tackle who can play in the NFL starting this season. Smith was the best tackle in college football last year, but he has, let's say, some issues. Having said that, I think that if he isn't a left tackle, he probably is a right tackle. He probably is a better run blocker than Monroe. Smith also will most likely be a fine guard if he can't play tackle. Andre Smith reminds me of Leonard Davis, the tackle from Texas who failed with the Cardinals at tackle and is now an expensive guard for the Cowboys. And I LOVE Maualuga. I would have had very little problem with the Bengals taking him here. But I think the pick should have been Monroe.

Round two, 38th pick overall. The Bengals selected Maualuga. I would have taken Rey Maualuga, MLB, Southern Cal. I just have a feeling that this will end up being one of those franchise-changing picks. (The image of Maualuga, above right, is from Jodatoa’s Blog). No pressure, however. This sort of makes up for the Jerome Simpson pick of last year.

Round three, 70th pick overall. The Bengals selected Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech. I would have taken Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech, closely, over two Alabama players -- Rashad Johnson, S, and Antoine Caldwell, center. Rashad Johnson seemed like a safe pick at this point. Caldwell, a little less so. Rashad may start for the Cardinals, and he will likely be a great special teamer because of his athletic ability and football instincts. Caldwell may have some problems from the get-go at center because of his size. But he is athletic and good and should be a good center. Michael Johnson, however, could become a GREAT pass rusher. And at this point I would be willing to give up these two choices for the possibility of greatness. One hopes that Michael Johnson decides to become great, because he supposedly has some of the most impressive physical tools at that position, and he did have some pretty good games in college.

Round three, 34th pick, 98th overall. The Bengals selected Chase Coffman, TE, Missouri. I would have taken Dorell Scott, DT, Clemson, over Travis Beckham, TE, Wisconsin. Coffman was TE of the year in college, just like Beckham was the year before. But I think Beckham is a better athlete who is a more explosive player with more upside, and neither of them are blockers at this point. Coffman is healthy, and Beckham isn't, and so Coffman may be more of a sure thing. Scott is a 6'4", 325-pound space eater in the middle who would have been a pretty good backup and spot player from the get-go.

Round four, sixth pick, 106th overall. The Bengals selected Jonathan Luigs, C, Arkansas. I would have taken Jonathan Luigs, C, Arkansas. He's a big boy who has been a great player in college for many years. I think he can come in and start early. This was a very nice pick by the Bengals. Don't get me wrong, the Bengals passed on some nice players, especially D.J. Moore, a corner from Vandy who should become a starter and Mike Thomas, WR and returner from Arizona State who will be a nice slot receiver. Some others that I liked but wouldn't have worried too much about such as Louis Murphy (speedy WR), Mike Goodson (speedy RB - ?returner??), David Bruton (size-speed prospect at S who wasn't a great player at ND), Terrance Taylor (squat NT from Michigan), Gartrell Johnson (size-speed prospect at TB from Colorado State), and Kenny McKinley (quick but slight WR from South Carolina). But Luigs is a top pick.

Round five, sixth pick, 142 overall. The Bengals select Kevin Huber, P, U of Cincinnati. I would have taken any of at least 18 players instead of a punter. I am very very much not a fan of taking a punter or a kicker, especially this high. Huber better be damned good, because I think it's close to a wasted pick. I guess out of all the players, I would have taken Jasper Brinkley, MLB, South Carolina. He's a big boy who would have been a good run-stopper. I'll just mention a few of the others I would have taken, more or less in order: Duke Robinson, very large G, Oklahoma; Victor Harris, CB, VA Tech; Cornelius Ingram, TE, Florida; James Casey, TE and slash, Rice; Nic Harris, OLB-SS, Oklahoma; Marcus Freeman, OLB, Ohio State; Javon Ringer, third-down RB and returner, Michigan State; Herman Johnson, larger G than the Duke, LSU; and there are others.

Round six, sixth pick, 179th overall. The Bengals selected Morgan Trent, CB, Michigan. I would have taken Morgan Trent, CB, Michigan, I guess, over Coye Francis, CB, San Jose State, and Cory Harris, CB, Southern Cal. I actually think Trent is a special teamer, corner, and safety. Francis and Harris are sub-package corners. Trent may not be the cover corner Francis and Harris is, but Trent will be a contributor I think right away. If Francis or Harris can't cover the slot, they are in trouble.

Round six, 36th pick, 209th overall. The Bengals selected Bernard Scott, RB, Abilene Christian. Morons. I think that every pick is important. I think they got cute with this one. Scott is smallish, 25, from a DII school, a toublemaker who has gotten kicked out of two schools, and has had run-ins with the law. He is also a good player. But, so what? I would have taken Vance Walker, a talented but smallish DT out of Georgia Tech slightly over Chris Ogbonnaya, a 220-pound RB out of Texas.

Round seven, sixth pick, 215th overall. The Bengals selected Fui Vakapuna, RB and FB, BYU. Vakapuna is 5'11", 245, and he can run and catch. I am OK with this pick. But I would have taken Nick Reed, DE - LB, Oregon. I also liked Rickey Jean-Francois, DT, LSU, who was injured and a little size-challenged but talented. But Reed was extremely productive in his career. He might not have the combine measurables, but he certainly was able to get the job done in college. And he seems to be one of those guys who knows how to rush the passer.

Round seven, 40th, 249th overall. The Bengals selected Clinton McDonald, DT, Memphis. I would have taken Clinton McDonald, DT, Memphis, slightly over Derek Kinder, WR, Pitt, and Rashad Jennings, RB, Liberty. Those were my only options, because with the 252nd selection, the Bengals took a Utah WR.

Round seven, 43rd overall. The Bengals took Freddie Brown, WR, Utah. I would have taken one of many players not drafted. I guess that at this point, they all look good compared to Freddie Brown to me, but I'll go with P.J. Hill, RB, Wisconsin. As a sophomore, he looked like Beanie Wells, the first-round pick out of Ohio State. Then last year, Hill had a DUI, got a little hurt, a little out of shape, and he didn't look very good. If you can light a fire under him, I think he can be a starter in the NFL in the right system.

So here are the picks. I really only have issue with two picks, the punter in the fifth round and the running back in the sixth. If more Bengals drafts had been like this one, they would be a better team. So the differences I took are just players I liked slightly more. I don't know if my draft is all that much better than Cincy's.

Cincy
1. Andre Smith, OT, Alabama.
2. Rey Maualuga, MLB, Southern Cal.
3. Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech.
3. Chase Coffman, TE, Missouri.
4. Jonathan Luigs, C, Arkansas.
5. Kevin Huber, P, Cincinnati.
6. Morgan Trent, CB, Michigan.
6. Bernard Scott, RB, Abilene Christian.
7. Fui Vakapuna, FB, BYU.
7. Clinton McDonald, DT, Memphis.
7. Freddie Brown, WR, Utah.

OldCleat
1. Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia.
2. Rey Maualuga, MLB, Southern Cal.
3. Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech.
3. Dorell Scott, DT, Clemson.
4. Jonathan Luigs, C, Arkansas.
5. Jasper Brinkley, MLB, South Carolina.
6. Morgan Trent, CB, Michigan.
6. Vance Walker, DT, Georgia Tech.
7. Nick Reed, DE-LB, Oregon.
7. Clinton McDonald, DT, Memphis.
7. P.J. Hill, RB, Wisconsin.

And here is the 2008 draft comparisons:

Cincy
1 Keith Rivers, LB, USC
2 Jerome Simpson, WR, Coastal Carolina
3 Pat Sims, DT, Auburn
3 Andre Caldwell, WR, Florida
4 Anthony Collins, T, Kansas
5 Jason Shirley, DT, Fresno State
6 Corey Lynch, S, Appalachian State
6 Matt Sherry, TE, Villanova
7 Angelo Craig, OLB, Cincinnati
7 Mario Urrutia, WR, Louisville

OldCleat
1 Keith Rivers, LB, USC
2 Quentin Groves, DE/LB, Auburn
3 Pat Sims, DT, Auburn
3 Justin King, CB, Penn State
4 Jack Ikegwuonu, CB/S, Wisconsin
5 Jonathan Goff, LB, Vanderbilt
6 Andre’ Woodson, QB, Kentucky
6 Chauncey Washington, RB, USC
7 Angelo Craig, OLB, Cincinnati
7 Wesley Woodyard, LB, Kentucky

thankyouverymuch,

OldCleat

OldCleat Redrafts Bengals Draft

OldCleat redrafted the Bengals draft - first (2008) edition. The rules are, I would draft a player that the Bengals had drafted, or someone drafted after the selection, until the Bengals selected again. So, my universe of players that I would have chosen were the players in-between the Bengals draft. I, of course, had the benefit of hindsight on this. Here is the OldCleat draft.

First round, ninth pick. Cincinnati picked Keith Rivers, linebacker out of USC (I got the image of him overrunning Darren McFadden from Razorsblog and/or ap). I would have picked Keith Rivers. I disagree with some experts that said that the Bengals should have given up picks to move up for Sedrick Ellis. If Ellis fell to them, fine. But he didn’t. And I think that the Bengals were well served to get the best front seven player on the board. I think Rivers is a 10-year player.

Second round, 15th pick, 46 overall. Cincy picked Jerome Simpson, a wide receiver out of the Carolina School of the Beach. I would have picked ANYONE ELSE. AAAAAAAAHHHHH. As my brother-in-law said, every year the Bengals just have a head-scratcher. This is it. Hope I’m wrong. At this point, I really wanted Quentin Groves, DE/rush linebacker from Auburn. Calais Campbell from the U would have been a pick here as well. If you needed to draft a wideout, Limas Sweed or Malcolm Kelly were on the board.

Third round, 14th pick, 77 overall. Cincy picked Pat Sims, nose tackle out of Auburn. I would have picked … Pat Sims. I like him. He is a run stuffer. He may not be the greatest pass rusher ever, but at this point, I want someone to clog the middle of the porous, tissue thin, let’s face it not very good middle of the Bengals defense.

Third round, 34th pick, 97 overall. Cincy picked Andre “Bubba” Caldwell, wide receiver out of Florida. I would have picked Justin King, cornerback out of Penn State … I guess. Just barely. I think that King may not be that great, but he may be good. He has the physical skills. Caldwell may be awesome. He is UofF’s all-time leading receiver, and he ran a 4.3 something at the combine. But many receivers don’t pan out, and you need all the corners you can get in this league.

Fourth round, 13th pick, 112 overall. Cincy picked Anthony Collins, offensive tackle out of Kansas. I would have picked Jack Ikegwuonu, cornerback out of Wisconsin. I really like the Collins pick. I think he might develop into a right tackle, and perhaps even a left tackle. He also may be able to provide more immediate help at guard. I think Ikegwuonu was a first-round to early second-round talent at cornerback or free safety. He fell to the fourth round because of a knee injury suffered at the combine. I would have gambled on the future at this pick. I like Red Bryant of Texas A&M here as well, but would have gone with Ike.

Fifth round, 10th pick, 145 overall. Cincinnati picked Jason Shirley, defensive tackle out of Fresno State. I would have picked Jonathan Goff, linebacker, Vanderbilt, slightly over Alvin Bowen, linebacker, Iowa State. This was the Bengals worst pick in the draft, not Jerome Simpson, for this reason: Shirley was not worth the gamble. He has been a bad apple on the college level, and … is his upside really worth the pick? Goff is big and a tackler. Bowen is a good player but needs to pick up some size. There were several other selections I would have taken over Shirley. Owen Schmitt, Roy Schuening, Dennis Dixon, Josh Johnson, Dominique Barber, Geno Hayes, Frank Okem, and Barry Richardson, more or less in order.

Sixth round, 11th pick, 177 overall. Bengals picked Corey Lynch, safety out of Appalachian State. I would have taken Andre’ Woodson, quarterback, Kentucky. I really like Corey Lynch. He should be fine on special teams, and maybe he is a safety. I also like Mike Hart of Michigan. The Wolverines (Giant Weasels) were a completely different team when he played. But Woodson is a first round talent. He may have been the most talented quarterback in this draft. To get him in the sixth round is a steal.

Sixth round, 41st pick, 207 overall. Bengals picked Matt Sherry, tight end, Villanova. I would have picked Chauncey Washington, tailback out of USC. I think he is going to be a backup in the NFL, and he may, I repeat, may have a Ryan Grant-type season or two in him. Matt Sherry? I frankly have no idea.

Seventh round, 37th pick, 244 overall. Bengals picked Angelo Craig, pass rush linebacker from the University of Cincinnati. I would have picked … Angelo Craig. With the rules of this little exercise, I have to pick between him and Lionel Dotson, defensive tackle from Arizona, since the Bengals had the 39th pick, 246 overall. Dotson isn’t the stuffer I would look for, though he may become one. Craig should be able to help on special teams and may be able to rush the passer. UC’s defense looked great last year, and he was a reason.

Seventh round, 39th pick, 246 overall. The Bengals signed Mario Urrutia, wide receiver out of Louisville. I would have picked Wesley Woodyard, linebacker out of Kentucky just barely over Ali Highsmith, linebacker out of LSU, neither of whom was drafted. I think that both will have a shot to start in the NFL at some point in their careers. If having to pick a drafted player, I would have picked Kirk Barton, offensive tackle, Ohio State. Barton will be a right tackle in the NFL, and can be guard in the NFL as early as next year.

So here are the drafts. OldCleat’s is more defensive oriented, and, I think, much better.

Cincy
1 Keith Rivers, LB, USC
2 Jerome Simpson, WR, Coastal Carolina
3 Pat Sims, DT, Auburn
3 Andre Caldwell, WR, Florida
4 Anthony Collins, T, Kansas
5 Jason Shirley, DT, Fresno State
6 Corey Lynch, S, Appalachian State
6 Matt Sherry, TE, Villanova
7 Angelo Craig, OLB, Cincinnati
7 Mario Urrutia, WR, Louisville

OldCleat
1 Keith Rivers, LB, USC
2 Quentin Groves, DE/LB, Auburn
3 Pat Sims, DT, Auburn
3 Justin King, CB, Penn State
4 Jack Ikegwuonu, CB/S, Wisconsin
5 Jonathan Goff, LB, Vanderbilt
6 Andre’ Woodson, QB, Kentucky
6 Chauncey Washington, RB, USC
7 Angelo Craig, OLB, Cincinnati
7 Wesley Woodyard, LB, Kentucky

thankyouverymuch,
OldCleat

Lewis Looks for a G.M.; OldCleat is Happy with Lewis

According to Yahoo Sports Rumors, Marvin Lewis says that the Bengals need a G.M. in charge of personnel.

They have a reputation for drafting guys other teams take off their boards, according to the report.

But the Bengals have done a pretty good to darned good job drafting under Lewis, with some missteps.

OldCleat will be taking a look at the Bengals draft under Lewis.

Lewis's first pick as Bengals defacto G.M. in the 2003 draft was Carson Palmer, who was picked first overall. There were those who thought that Kyle Boller was going to be a better NFL QB. (Chris Mortensen, Len Pasquarelli were there.) So, that goes a little ways toward very good.

Second round, he picked up Eric Steinbach, which was an excellent pick. Third round, 65 overall, Kelley Washington out of Tennessee. I thought this was a great pick. Washington was a very good SEC player. Didn't turn out that way. Look who they passed up:

66 Cory Redding DE Texas Detroit Lions
67 Antwan Peek LB Cincinnati Houston Texans
68 Lance Briggs OLB Arizona Chicago Bears
69 Jason Witten TE Tennessee Dallas Cowboys

Ouch. Fourth round, 98, Dennis Weathersby, CB. Again, was a risk/reward pick. Gunshot victim as a bystander, he might have worked out, but he was injured in a car wreck and was forced from the game. Here is who the Bengals passed on:

99 Artose Pinner RB Kentucky Detroit Lions
100 Todd Johnson DB Florida Chicago Bears
101 Domanick Williams RB Louisiana State Houston Texans
102 Montrae Holland G Florida State New Orleans Saints
103 Bradie James LB Louisiana State Dallas Cowboys
104 George Wrighster TE Oregon Jacksonville Jaguars
105 Onterrio Smith RB Oregon Minnesota Vikings
106 Shaun McDonald WR Arizona State St. Louis Rams
107 DeJuan Groce CB Nebraska St. Louis Rams

Holland is pretty good, James not bad, McDonald has contributed, but, all in all, no big deal.

Second fourth round pick was Jermi Johnson, the slightly overrated FB still on the team. Pretty good.

Fifth round, Khalid Abdullah, a linebacker from Linebacker U II, Mars Hill. Confusing. Who Marvin missed out on:

137 Terrence Holt DB North Carolina State Detroit Lions
138 Robert Mathis DE Alabama A&M Indianapolis Colts
139 Bobby Wade WR Arizona Chicago Bears
140 Derek Pagel DB Iowa New York Jets

Not good. Sixth round was Langston Moore out of South Carolina, a pretty good pick who is currently on the Lions. Pretty good. Scott Kooistra, a seventh rounder, is the backup right tackle, and he was a pretty good pick. The Bengals also took Elton Patterson in the seventh.

The next year was supposed to be Marvin's big draft. He was saying that he knew better what he was doing. The first thing he did was trade out of No. 17 down to 24, picking up starting CB Deltha O'Neal. The Broncos took DJ Williams from Miami. I still take this trade. So far, so good.

Then, Marvin traded down to 26, passing on Steven Jackson. The Bengals took Chris Perry from Michigan instead. Oops. Nobody thought this was good except for Marvin. Bengals also picked up Stacy Andrews in the fourth round. Here are some of the other players the Bengals passed on for No. 26:

27 Jason Babin OLB Western Michigan Houston Texans
28 Chris Gamble CB Ohio State Carolina Panthers
29 Michael Jenkins WR Ohio State Atlanta Falcons
30 Kevin Jones RB Virginia Tech Detroit Lions
31 Rashaun Woods WR Oklahoma State San Francisco 49ers
32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia New England Patriots

I would say the Bengals were about in the middle of that mess. Gamble might have been nice. Watson is a good TE.

Second round, 49 overall, they picked Keiwan Ratliff, the SEC Defensive Player of the Year CB at Florida. The Bengals just recently cut him. I thought it was a great pick. They got some value out of him, but in the end, he couldn't really cut it as a nickle back. Here are who they passed on.

50 Devery Henderson WR Louisiana State New Orleans Saints
51 Dwan Edwards DT Oregon State Baltimore Ravens
52 Jacob Rogers T USC Dallas Cowboys
53 Michael Boulware DB Florida State Seattle Seahawks
54 Darius Watts WR Marshall Denver Broncos
58 Shawntae Spencer CB Pittsburgh San Francisco 49ers

So they were in the middle to the end of that. Spencer is at least a nickle back.

Not so good there. Then, with the second second round pick they got from the Patriots for Corey Dillon, the Bengals took Madieu Williams. I thought it was a bad pick, and that turned out great. I think he is one of the most underrated safeties in the game.

Third round, No. 80 overall, Bengals take skinney LB from Arkansas, Caleb Miller. That is an OK pick. He is a good backup, special teams player, occasional starter. Here's who they passed on:

81 Chris Cooley TE Utah State Washington Redskins
82 Devard Darling WR Washington State Baltimore Ravens
83 Stephen Peterman G Louisiana State Dallas Cowboys
84 Sean Locklear G North Carolina State Seattle Seahawks
85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan Denver Broncos
86 Jorge Cordova LB Nevada-Reno Jacksonville Jaguars
87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State Green Bay Packers
88 Darrion Scott DE Ohio State Minnesota Vikings
89 Matt Ware DB UCLA Philadelphia Eagles
90 Matt Schaub QB Virginia Atlanta Falcons

So they were near the top of that group. Chris Cooley, Darrion Scott, Matt Schaub, not bad. The others, not great. Last pick of the third round, Bengals take Landon Johnson, a very good pick. He as been a starter for most of his career. Who they passed on:

97 Reggie Torbor DE Auburn New York Giants
98 Shaun Phillips LB Purdue San Diego Chargers
99 Carlos Francis WR Texas Tech Oakland Raiders
100 Alex Stepanovich C Ohio State Arizona Cardinals
101 Demorrio Williams LB Nebraska Atlanta Falcons
102 Will Poole CB USC Miami Dolphins
103 Bo Schobel DE Texas Christian Tennessee Titans

Phillips and Schobel are very good players. But Johnson is just a step or two below that, I think.

Fourth round, Bengals pick Matthias Askew, a DT from Michigan State who really didn't work out. They passed on:

115 Nat Dorsey T Georgia Tech Minnesota Vikings
116 Niko Koutouvides LB Purdue Seattle Seahawks

So no big deal. 117 overall, they take Robert Geathers, DE, out of Georgia. GREAT pick. Sure, he may be a bit overrated because of the sacks, but he's pretty good.

118 Anthony Maddox DT Delta State Jacksonville Jaguars
119 Mewelde Moore RB Tulane Minnesota Vikings
120 Ernest Wilford WR Virginia Tech Jacksonville Jaguars
121 Bruce Thornton CB Georgia Dallas Cowboys
122 Glenn Earl SS Notre Dame Houston Texans

So that's a great pick. Then they took Andrews 123 overall. They passed on:

124 Michael Waddell CB North Carolina Tennessee Titans
125 Jason David CB Washington State Indianapolis Colts
126 Jared Allen DE Idaho State Kansas City Chiefs
127 Richard Seigler LB Oregon State San Francisco 49ers
128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas New England Patriots
129 J.R. Reed DB South Florida Philadelphia Eagles
130 Brandon Chillar OLB UCLA St. Louis Rams
131 Trey Darilek T Texas-El Paso Philadelphia Eagles
132 Adrian Jones T Kansas New York Jets

Sure, Jared Allen hurts. But Andrews is a starting quality guard, and I do think that he could be a starting right tackle in the league.